Call them governments, homeowners associations, or not-for-profit corporations, they are all still ways for us to collectively manage and maintain property. What about driving? You get your drivers license based on the skills you have and the rules you agree to follow. 2. The Right to Drive is not a right at all. I understand that when a perceived ‘right’ infringes on another such as forcing someone to teach me or provide me with healthcare then it’s not a ‘right’. The United States Constitution provides the legal basis for many of the rights American citizens enjoy. So driving is a right, but your right to use “public” roads is alienable. Just go to any government office and look at the more expensive items, like computers and furniture, and you’ll find asset tags that state “Property of …”. The not-so-sad fact is that there is no “right” to drive. “It’s like saying ‘I have a constitutional right to drive drunk’ … Which part do you not understand? Researchers armed with actual facts state that U.S. case law is overwhelming in determining that - to restrict, in any fashion, the movement of the individual American in the free exercise of their right to travel upon the roadways, (excluding "commerce" which the state Legislatures are correct in regulating), is a serious breach of those freedoms secured by the U.S. Constitution, and most state Constitutions, i.e - … A site for ordering gasoline online is one example. Teche Lines vs. Danforth, Miss., 12 S.2d 784 “… the right of the citizen to drive on a public street with freedom from police interference… is a fundamental constitutional right” -White, 97 Cal.App.3d.141, 158 Cal.Rptr. I think it’s a Right. And the ultimate responsibility for what those governments do rests with the American people. We don’t think it appropriate for individuals to create “laws” for themselves, then enforce and prosecute them, so we form a government to do it for us. In the U.S. – and in any country you care to name – driving is a privilege. What are your thoughts? Flattery will get my attention; I am only human. And it has generated a fair amount of discussion, which is very good. You could make the argument about roads but that should be either privatized or funded from the purchase of fuel. 38. Although we don’t act that way, technically we “own” the governments (state, local, and federal), since We The People are ultimately sovereign in this nation. Things like freedom of religion, speech, and press are easy because they are listed in the Constitution. The roads are an interesting question, but more about that later. 2. Although the Supreme Court has found that the right to interstate travel is a fundamental right, it has not gone so far as to say that driving it’s self is a fundamental right. If rules are broken or laws are violated, the State reserves the right to restrict or revoke a person’s privilege. Are mandatory drivers licenses necessary or expedient for the safety and interest of society? The delightful Pacific Northwest Tree Octopus is another. One of the more interesting ideas I came across while writing my book The Constitution Study, is this idea that governments aren’t all that special. A government is just an organization, not that different from a corporation. So is requiring a license to operate a motor vehicle on public roads depriving you of a liberty? “The RIGHT of the citizen to DRIVE on the public street with freedom from police interference, unless he is engaged in suspicious conduct associated in some manner with criminality is a FUNDAMENTAL CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT which must be protected by the courts.” People v. After you get your driving license you must continue to demonstrate your ability to drive safely on the road. A public highway … Since there are many ways the licensing of drivers and the building and maintenance of roads can be done outside of government, vivy45 brings up the possibilities of privatization or funding by fees. So can I get into a car without a license and drive? You don't NEED a "driver license" to drive a vehicle, ANYWHERE. Because he who owns the road can determine when, how, and under what circumstances it can be used. Many cases, documents, etc. So, just as when a corporation builds a building it is owned by the corporation and not the individual stock holders, when the government builds a road it, and not the individual tax payers, own the road. a constitutional right to drive an automobile, the Supreme Court seems protective of a “freedom of movement” doctrine that protects an individual’s right to travel as a pedestrian. So we create organizations to do this work. So the matter is settled in California, and courts in other states are not falling all over each other to rule otherwise. Rights that Americans take for granted often do not apply for drunk driving. A. According to the Webster’s 1828 dictionary there are several types of liberty: LIB’ERTY, noun [Latin libertas, from liber, free.]. As a source of humor, one can see how laughable these regulations help while traveling the roads. With this premise in mind, not only does the idea of government ownership make more sense, but our responsibilities as “owners” of the government become more clear. Imagine you have a long driveway that connects one road to another, and you require people who drive on your driveway to prove they have the skills and training necessary to operate the vehicle (a license) and to drive no more than 15 MPH (because you are concerned about the safety of others on your property). I thought this time I’d open this up to debate. They are also bound to the Constitution, meaning those rules are to apply to everyone equally and your right to use public land cannot be revoked without due process of law (the protection of your rights). The case was Miller vs. Reed, in the 9th Circuit of the U.S. Court of Appeals. Second, during the discussion, both sides admitted there were aspects to this discussion they hadn’t thought about. Lately there has been a lot of talk about “Sovereign Citizens” and the freedoms that we have lost… The government has “tricked” us into thinking that we are free citizens.. This liberty is abridged by the establishment of government. Returning the Constitution to We the People. We started talking about driving and now we’re into the ownership of “public” property. That depends on what type of liberty we’re talking about. This is once again a well formed followup to our discussion. David sees this as a freedom of movement right. In order to obtain the privilege, you must apply for a license and abide by the rules of the road. And it does. Then only drivers are paying for roads. That means they not only exercise power over government owned roads, but private ones as well. This may help you understand my response to vivy45’s question about traffic fines. What was this wonderful question? What if I Just Don’t Install an Ignition Interlock Device in Nevada? Natural liberty consists in the power of acting as one thinks fit, without any restraint or control, except from the laws of nature. You’re wearing a mask. vivy45 then goes on to a different topic regarding the penalties for not following the rules, but I want don’t want to include too much personal information here. Travel within the United States Constitutional freedom. I hope you will take some time and comment on vivy45’s and my discussion about driving rights and public ownership. Yes, they got the money from us, but we agreed to give them the power to take that money from us. Court 1907). Usually, I publish the article before I release the podcast episode. First, can anyone find a quote from a Founding Father that can be referenced to the effect of our right to travel? That in and of itself proves anyone has the right to get a license but driving is a privilege only given to those who drive safely. Including a lot that isn’t true. I don’t think driving should be considered a privilege. Just as a corporation is made up of people but are a separate entity, governments are also made up of people but are a separate entity. Driving Is A Constitutional Right! Since the roads are owned by the government, then they can determine who, when, and under what conditions someone can use them. I believe we do, but have not found a quote I feel comfortable using as a reference. Then vivy45 brings up an interesting point about roads. But does it violate a person’s civil liberty? The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people. I start by defining some terms. Yes, governments can own things. A constitutional right can be a prerogative or a duty, a power or a restraint of power, recognized and established by a sovereign state or union of states. Again we have a property rights issue. They aren’t some magical think tank, they aren’t infallible, they don’t endow people with some special ability, and they are most certainly not to be worshiped. Every dollar goes directly to keeping The Constitution Study Podcast free and on the air. You mentioned that “We call them ‘public roads’, but really, they are owned by the government not the public”. Rights are individual not collective, so even if you view the road as purchased collectively you do not have a right to it since that collection is organized under a contract, a Constitution, a Charter, or some other forming document. The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people. I want to thank David Oldham both for the wonderful discussion we had and for the courtesy with which he brought it to my attention. Of course, since those governments are bound by constitutions (both state and local), they are governed by those documents. Check facts. In order to obtain the privilege, you must apply for a license and abide by the rules of the road. I love when people ask questions, especially thoughtful ones. The decision stated: While the ‘right of travel’ is a fundamental right, the privilege to operate a motor vehicle can be conditionally granted based upon being licensed and following certain rules. What if I Just Don’t Install an Ignition Interlock Device in Michigan. More importantly, is the licensing of drivers a proper function of government or should it be turned over to another process? Sadly, most Americans give little thought to that responsibility. One of the great things about living in a union of sovereign states is that those states can try things and we can learn from them. Finally, vivy45 states their position. However, we then get to the issue of the roads. (It’s also why I think studying the Constitution in groups is beneficial.) Freedom of movement is not enumerated in the Constitution, but we all agree that we have a right to move along public roads without interference. Furthermore, if the roads are paid for with tax dollars, the people’s money, doesn’t that mean the People and not the government ‘owns’ the roads? 1 min read “It’s like saying ‘I have a constitutional right to drive drunk’ … Which part do you not understand? So you can drive your car on your property, but you do not have the right to drive on someone else’s property. To prove that point, some kind souls have built a variety of convincing hoax websites. Maybe if we did so more often, we would not take our responsibilities of overseeing our organizations so lightly. Parents would also agree driving is a privilege not a right. That myth was concocted by a few extreme civil libertarians who don’t know the first thing about constitutional interpretation. You don't NEED a "driver license" to drive a vehicle, ANYWHERE. 778, 779 (Delaware Supreme. No. Ultimately, that is our fault for letting it happen. Freedom from restraint, in a general sense, and applicable to the body, or to the will or mind. When I learned that the first drivers of engined vehicles in the USA had no license, I started thinking about this issue of rights. The issue of traffic fines is a question of justice. …nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law…. How would I even get caught driving on a suspended license in Oklahoma? It is a privilege granted by the State you live in. vivy45 asked just such a question on my YouTube channel. The matter came up in California in 1999. I have found several references both in Supreme Court rulings and in the Constitution itself that agree private travel-including driving is a right that cannot be prohibited or under state approval. The point that David brought up that I didn’t think about in my discussion with vivy45 was licensing. It is also the contention of this Citizen that travels upon the streets or highways by this Citizen is an inalienable “RIGHT.” Being this, is not subject to regulation or legislation by the State s General Assembly. Sorry, your blog cannot share posts by email. One of the freedoms based in the Constitution is our freedom of movement and subsequent right to travel. People who insist that driving is a right invariably point out that the Constitution guarantees freedom of movement. And as always, if you have questions you would like to discuss, please comment or as a question at the website. Hence the restraints of law are essential to civil liberty. Sadly, we have given governments (mostly through our inaction) a virtual monopoly not only over our roadways, but the authority to determine qualifications for using them. To start with, vivy45 and I agree. And just as when the oversight of a corporation is lax it runs amok, when we don’t oversee our governments they also run rampant. The issue is whether Citizens are required to have a drivers license or to obey all of the travel regulations… A Free and Natural Person has given up none of his “RIGHTS.” That the General Statutes does not apply to him. I have heard their argument before: The constitution gives every citizen the right to travel freely from state to state. So when we talk about government doing something, it’s really just people acting as part of this organization. Click to share on Twitter (Opens in new window), Click to share on Facebook (Opens in new window), Click to share on LinkedIn (Opens in new window), Click to email this to a friend (Opens in new window), John Jay Quote Short-Sleeve Unisex T-Shirt, Studying the Constitution is not as hard as you may think. Second, can someone find a reference from the founding era that the mode of transportation is not a factor in the right to travel? And the ultimate responsibility for what those governments do rests with the American people. Driving is a _____. If you buy a car, you own that car, it is your property and you have a right to do with it whatever you wish, as long as you don’t infringe on the legitimate rights of another. Right to Travel vs. Freedom of Movement. And the Supreme Court has ruled many times that local jurisdictions have the right to regulate driving permits in this way. civil liberty is an exemption from the arbitrary will of others, which exemption is secured by established laws, which restrain every man from injuring or controlling another. Simeone v. Lindsay, 65 Atl. The consequences are costly to your driving record and your wallet. If operating a motor vehicle on public roads is a right, then preventing you from doing so before you’ve done anything wrong is depriving you of your liberty without due process of law. Check facts. The Ninth Amendment to the Constitution specifies that just because a right isn’t specifically listed in the Constitution doesn’t mean it’s not a right and that it shouldn’t be protected. However, like most culturally important writings, the Constitution is interpreted differently by different people. And if we the people own the roads and own the car, doesn’t that make driving a ‘right’? Based on this premise, vivy45 asks the question, what about driving? I also hope you will do so with the thought and grace that we have shown here. In this followup, I will do my best to represent David’s point of view as I understand it from our discussion. But, due to some crazy scheduling, the video on this topic got released first. The government can’t condition the exercise of a constitutional right on the waiver of another one. Post was not sent - check your email addresses! Driving is not a PRIVILEGE, it is a CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT that can not be taken from you. Would you vary the punishment based on how fast they were going? This has meant that States have been largely unfettered in their ability to enact legislation that restricts, regulates, and revokes citizens’ ability to drive. People v. vivy45 started with a premise I have discussed before. “Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no rule making or legislation which would abrogate them.” – Miranda v. Arizona, 384 US 436, 491 (1966) “The claim and exercise of a constitutional right cannot thus be converted into a crime.” – Miller v. U.S., 230 F.2d 486, at 489 (1956) We form corporations to manufacture products or provide goods and services. We form governments to protect our rights and perform functions we think would be inappropriate or inefficient to do individually. All in all, a good, solid, and well supported question. By continuing to navigate this site you will be accepting the use of cookies in this way unless you click the decline button. And what if they continued to drive on your driveway even after your permission had been revoked? The question at hand has to do with the question of rights and how we know what is and is not a right. Since you don’t directly own the road, you don’t have the right to use it as you see fit. As early as the Articles of Confederation the Congress recognized freedom of movement (Article 4), though the right was thought to be so fundamental during the drafting of the Constitution as not needing explicit enumeration.. And we can’t forget about one the Chruch of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. I like your train of thought. It is a state of exemption from the control of others, and from positive laws and the institutions of social life. The not-so-sad fact is that there is no “right” to drive. What if I Just Don’t Install an Ignition Interlock Device in Oklahoma? In the U.S. – and in any country you care to name – driving is a privilege. 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